07-Sep-08: Hamilton Stripped of Win, Glock Penalised Too
Hello and welcome to the second F1 Minute for the 7th September.
A quick update on the FIA investigations into the Belgium Grand Prix results. That’s right, investigations plural. Earlier I mentioned that the stewards were looking into a Hamilton incident, but before that they announced that Glock would receive a 25 second penalty for overtaking under yellow flags. Presumably this was on the last lap with the waved yellows for Raikkonen’s crash. That drops him out of the points and promotes Webber to 8th place.
Hamilton’s investigation was for not handing back the advantage to Raikkonen after cutting across the chicane. The stewards investigated and have now handed Hamilton a post-race drive-through penalty, meaning he is demoted to third. Massa inherits the win, and Heidfeld takes second. This decision is causing a lot of controversy, as Hamilton was fully behind Raikkonen before overtaking him on the straight, but has apparently still been deemed to have taken an advantage. McLaren have lodged an appeal.
There’s plenty of discussion in the comments at Sidepodcast.com, or start afresh and let me know what you think at F1Minute.com.
ian on Sun, 7th Sep 2008 21:27
I’m not sure if the problem is with the stewards considerations. I would imagine that once again certain members of the FIA’s governing body made yet another decision based on personal beliefs. i.e. Last years constant bullying of McClaren and the “Junior drivers shouldn’t win a Formula 1 championship in their debut year” comments.
It wouldnt be the first time and most likely won’t be the last. Its both a shame and a disgrace.
Eddie Pantoja on Sun, 7th Sep 2008 21:28
After looking at some video replays on you tube I can’t fathom what the race stewards would’ve preferred Hamilton to do on that chicane. Should he have stayed on track and instead be penalized to failing to avoid an avoidable accident? Also the manner in which Kimi cut off Massa’s line on the first lap seemed a rather selfish maneuver especially against a team mate. Kimi was obviously out there to ‘win at all costs’.
me on Mon, 8th Sep 2008 00:40
agreed ian. the fia’s credibility is certainly suffering at the moment.
i fairness to kimi, that’s pretty much the way it was. now he’s left as massa’s rear gunner and little hope of defending his wdc title this year.
Stephan on Mon, 8th Sep 2008 07:18
When Kimi and Hamilton stumbled over the Williams backmarker, Hamilton overtook the Williams on the runoff area, while Kimi stayed on-track to pass on the inside.
Hamilton had (1) gained a place over the backmarker by using the runoff area, and (2) ended up better able to challenge Raikkonen because he had retained more momentum since he took the illegal, straighter, wider line off-track, than Raikkonen who had to sacrifice speed to pass legally on the inside line.
me on Mon, 8th Sep 2008 08:19
good point stephan, however both technically overtook a backmarker under waved yellows (although as the yellow flags were for nico, it’s debatable whether or not both would have been penalised).
ian on Mon, 8th Sep 2008 10:54
Well, with all said and done, nothing is going to change the way in which the FIA and more importantly Bernie Ecclestone abuse this sport. Its nothing more than a farce. Its one rule for one team and the leaser will get persecuted unless they are driving a Ferrari.
FIA – Run by the French
Bernie Ecclestone – One previous count of racism
Ferrari – Primarily sponsored by the Italian Mafia
Need I say more ?
Quite simply – The next race should be boycott !
Marcus on Mon, 8th Sep 2008 14:44
Calm down. Hamilton keeped the advantage staying close behind Raikoennen after cutting across the chicane.
If he had driven normal way through the chicane he wouldn’t have had the chance to overtake at the end of start/finish-line.
Decision is 100% correct.
ian on Mon, 8th Sep 2008 16:17
On the very same lap, Raikoennen blatantly used the run-off area to his own advantage. He slungshot the corner reducing the gap between himself and Hamilton…. So, What gives.
Also, If Hamilton had chosen any other option at that point he would have been persecuted for causing an avoidable accident !
Ohh, In case you had forgotten Marcus, Didnt Raikoennen fuble it into the barrier shortly after ? I suppose that was Hamiltons fault also along with Kimi’s irate driving manner ?
So, Where is the fairness ?
Decision is dubious to say the absolute least !
Decision = 100% incorrect !
ian on Mon, 8th Sep 2008 16:17
Ohh, and before I forget …..
Are you telling me the story would be different if the shoe were on the other foot ?
Rafael on Mon, 8th Sep 2008 16:18
It is amazing how biased desicions at the FIA are. Last European Grand Prix, big grave mistake from Raikkonenn getting one of his own mechanics to the hospital. FIA response: not a word.
I believe that Raikkonenn lost yesterday on his own. He got to nervous with the rain and the traffic and lost control of his car. This has absolutely nothing to do with what happened with Hamilton.
This one was one of the most exiting races in some time. If emotion is going to be cause of this kind of pennalties, lets quit racing altogether.
I agree with Nikki Lauda (one of the greatest and an ex Ferrari as well as McLaren). This pennalty is a shame for the FIA and the worst FIA decision of all time.
me on Mon, 8th Sep 2008 18:51
that’s almost certainly true. but he couldn’t take normal way because he was pushed (quite correctly) wide by kimi.
if it was a gravel run-off, lewis would have chosen the kerbs, lost a bundle of time and fallen way back.
i’m going with correct decision too, and that’s after hearing every side, of every story at least 3 times today
me on Mon, 8th Sep 2008 18:56
agree with everything you’ve said there rafael, except the last line.
in my opinion nikki is nothing but a loud-mouthed-headline-seeker, who has much to say on the sport, almost all of it misinformed and incorrect.
ian on Tue, 9th Sep 2008 13:00
“i’m going with correct decision too, and that’s after hearing every side, of every story at least 3 times today” ??????????
Judge and jury have spoken ?. If you really think you’ve heard every side of every story at least three times then you are sadly mistaken. The stewards made the current decision, McClaren have commented with intentions. Ferrari will stay relatively quite (as they do). No comment from despicable Bernie. The FIA have made no comments on any outcome (so far).
So how come you know so much. Do you have access to detailed information that we don’t ?
We are all capable of opinion but I really think these should be kept quiet until everyone knows the full story of which currently, you don’t !
I feel the pot calls the kettle black.
Perhaps your last comment should have been -
“in my opinion, I am nothing but a loud-mouthed-headline-seeker, who has much to say on the sport, almost all of it misinformed and incorrect.”
Christine on Tue, 9th Sep 2008 13:05
I think that’s harsh, Ian. We make podcasts about Formula 1, that’s what we do. If we had no opinions, or had some but kept quiet, there would be no shows.
The whole point of sports is entertainment, and discussing the pros and cons of things is all part of the fun.
Who are we harming here?
jerome coleman on Tue, 9th Sep 2008 13:27
Martin Brundle and the rest of the british press assume that everyone in britain is a McClaren fan/Lewis hamilton fan well iam not iam aferrari fan.and when lewis hamilton starts driving for ferrari then i will be L.H fan He and Mcclaren deserved there punishment if there was no chicane there he was into the wall he should have been given a further 25 seconds penelty for the next race because of his reckless driving J.C
ian on Tue, 9th Sep 2008 15:04
Good one Jerome, I suppose Kimi R wasn’t driving erratically either !
FIA’s sponsor = FIAT
FIAT Subsidiary = Ferrari
Ferrari = desperate
me on Tue, 9th Sep 2008 18:54
nothing to say about christine’s response ian? that does surprise me.
to answer you earlier points (because i have the courtesy to respond when someone asks me a question).
1) one of the stewards has spoken, several people at mclaren have spoken, a number of people at ferrari have spoken (including one of their drivers). another impartial driver has also spoken out.
2) i, along with thousands of other people (but not you apparently), have watched every video i can find of the two corners in question. plus read many hundreds of words written from many reputable people on the very subject.
3) and finally, you don’t appear to be keeping your opinions very quiet!
far be it from me to tell you what to do, but maybe a cup of camomile tea or two might not go amiss, sir.
ian on Wed, 10th Sep 2008 10:30
Okay, Since I didn’t have time to properly respond to multiple posts yesterday and your both (yourself and Christine) seem more than willing to pick on both myself and Nikki Lauda. And, since I do have the courtesy to respond, I will.
Who are you harming ?. Well, lets try to differentiate between fiction, fact and rumor shall we.
a) I never said that the stewards hadn’t spoken. I simply inferred that neither Bernie Ecclestone and the FIA have commented.
b) Ferrari have spoken but have still said so little that no conclusion can be drawn.
c) I personally have spent a lot of time (like yourself) watching the videos over and over. I, (in my opinion) Still cannot see where the problem lies. Both made incorrect movements. This is simply tit for tat !
So, Despite the words written by numerous reputable people, the fact still remains that F1 is becoming more and more unfair. I admit that I cannot spend as much time on this subject as you both can and I must say that this is a great facility that does give something back to the supporting people of the sport (a voice maybe?).
I am just one of these supporters that share a common grudge.
Calm down I hear you say, well, If Christine can sit in her ivory tower and criticize a 59 year old whom was good enough to make it into Ferrari’s team. Was a successful racing driver for countless seasons on several teams and held position in F1 for 11 years or more. I really find it difficult to understand how someone can refute both an experienced and knowledgeable opinion.
Far be it from me to feel passionate about F1 but, a cup of camomile tea will not fix any of the existing problems is a sport that is clearly becoming more corrupt than cricket.
Call me harsh, well, If a journalist can utilize the ability to communicate instead of badmouthing the people that made a difference or an positive impact on the sport then that “opinion” (in my mind) is’nt really worth listening too, madam.
Christine on Wed, 10th Sep 2008 10:45
I don’t think anyone’s picking on anyone here. You criticised some opinions on the site, so we both responded.
I’d like to point out two things though.
1) I haven’t said anything against Lauda.
2) We’re not journalists.
I appreciate everyone that comes to our sites and shares their opinion. The conversation makes it what it is. We’re all fans, and we’re all passionate, and most likely, we’re never all going to agree.
me on Wed, 10th Sep 2008 10:56
so far as i can tell, they guy’s out solely to boost his own profile and hasn’t contributed a single worthy comment in god knows how long. to put it politely, in my opinion, the man is an attention seeking headline whore.
i’m not saying he wasn’t a fast nor an extremely brave driver. i’m not questioning his abilities behind the wheel at all in fact.
steve on Wed, 10th Sep 2008 21:20
used to think fia were Schumachers poodles now we know its ferraris poodle disgrace time to switch to super bikes i think
erika on Wed, 10th Sep 2008 21:27
Ferrari money wins again, the only way Lewis has a chance, is a change to ferrari, then they`d back him all the way, why should he when he has a car & a team that can win.
Ferrari, if you can`t win fairly, don`t play!
Geoff on Thu, 11th Sep 2008 11:20
If you are not supposed to cut chicanes to avoid accidents, why don’t they put walls up around the boundary of the track, so it’s not possible to leave it without damaging your car?
Murray Walker on Thu, 11th Sep 2008 16:09
It’s clear that the position was not given back – Hamilton raced Raikkonen all the way down the start/finish line.
What is wrong is if race control told Martin Whitmarsh that the move was okay and then the stewards over-turned that decision after the race, when McLaren no longer had an opportunity to advise Lewis to properly give the place back.
I believe the appeal will show that McLaren were told over the radio that the move was okay, even if it wasn’t, and re-instate Hamilton as the winner. If they had said the move wasn’t okay he could have given the place back before Eau Rouge and would have passed Kimi again long before seeing the bus stop for the penultimate time. They absolutely have to reverse the penalty if they show they were told by Race Control that the move was okay.
Geoff on Fri, 12th Sep 2008 10:14
“It’s clear that the position was not given back – Hamilton raced Raikkonen all the way down the start/finish line.”
What? How do you move BEHIND your opponent from the left of the track to the right of the track and not give back the position?
papi on Sun, 2nd Nov 2008 22:12
How can we find out who had dry tires on the final lap?
.
Christine on Mon, 3rd Nov 2008 19:39
Good question, papi. At Spa or Brazil?
Spa – http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70400
Brazil – http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71970